We wish the site to continue (Y/N)

[roswell]

The final release of MultiEx Commander passed mostly with no one noticing: http://www.xentax.com/?p=1334
I said the final release won't be up for a long time, and now the day is approaching that I will no longer host MultiEx Commander. That day is June 10th 2023.

June 10 is this coming weekend. Is that also the deadline for the Xentax website? What is the deadline for Xentax, if I may ask? I assume you must make either yearly or monthly payments.

[relight]

(also it isn't and has nothing to do with social media, no idea why one person mentioned facebook etc)

I'm not sure if you're referring to me here, but the reason it was mentioned is because the site owner was concerned about it. Mr. Mouse directly equated social media with "supporting" the site, which means it's being considered as a factor in whether to shut down the site or not.

Here's the TLDR of relevant posts:

All of this gives the impression that the site is for a few people only, and no-one talks about it, posts about it, supports it, promotes it.

If you want to bring people here, it starts with social media. You need Xentax Twitter, Xentax Facebook, etc... Search engine visibility no longer good enough.

For example, we have a Facebook account, but no-one managing it anymore. Again, it takes people who are willing to support to keep things going. No support, no site.

And then I followed up on those comments by mentioning that I don't consider social media (Facebook as one example) to be important, such that I don't think it should be a consideration for whether the site is shut down or not:

I'm not a fan of ... social media such as Facebook. ... If you aren't able to maintain accounts on Facebook, Twitter, etc, I don't see it as a loss. I don't see those as being necessary to having the site and the forum. Just the other day, I Googled a game, immediately arrived at the appropriate thread in the forum ... So Google is definitely still relevant to bring people to the site.

[roswell]

Just throwing out ideas. It's perfectly legal to ask for money for maintaining a website. You could setup a gofundme.com page and ask people to support the website for the next 10-20 years. People ask for money for virtually anything on that site, for paying rent or whatever, so your need is no less important than theirs. But, compared to most, you have something to give back, the information on this forum, so you have a one up.

[kaspar]

Sorry,
I did just read only about 2 pages of answers (due to time constrictions) but I want to give my 2 cents anyway...
<premise you can easily skip>
I never went really deep in reverse engineering myself (even if lately I've been able to make a few discoveries on ff7 and ff8 camera file format and gave my very little contribution at least once) but, especially at the beginning, I've been an avid lurker of the tools and information posted here.
I think that being able to see how things were done in games helped me greatly to become a 3D technical artist and get to work in Game Development.
</premise you can easily skip>
I'd like to see the site continue to live and even if I've not been using it for a long time I'd like to make sure it will be here when sooner or later I'll need it again and I'm willing to give a little support for it (Patreon could be good but there may be a better/cheaper platform that would take less money from the community donations).

As for the "Discord is killing the forum" thing... maybe that's not 100% true yet maybe it's harming the forum somehow anyway.
Many people may find Discord easier and more convenient to use to discuss and then not bother to post the same stuff again here..so maybe many began to "skip" the forum entirely but this could start to create a black hole for freely available stuff.
I fully agree that all the "juicy" information should be available publicly and having them locked on a Discord server may be "limiting" so the solution could maybe be "mirroring" those on the forum using a Discord Bot or something... The best would be to have some sort of filter for the useful/interesting stuff but I know that everything requires time

I think that being able to find this kind of stuff with a Google search is what makes many people like me discover Xentax in the first place and maybe Discord is not helping in that direction but maybe the solution is not just "kill Discord" but rather make Discord useful content more "open".

[Mr.Mouse]

June 10 is this coming weekend. Is that also the deadline for the Xentax website? What is the deadline for Xentax, if I may ask? I assume you must make either yearly or monthly payments.

No. June 10th is just the date for MultiEx Commander. But it is more likely to be today, due to circumstances.

[roswell]

Just some more ideas.

If someone came to you and said, "Look, I'll pay exactly one year's hosting of your website, but in exchange, you'll have to put ad banners on the site. This point is non-negotiable." Would you be interested in that?

[Mr.Mouse]

Just some more ideas.

If someone came to you and said, "Look, I'll pay exactly one year's hosting of your website, but in exchange, you'll have to put ad banners on the site. This point is non-negotiable." Would you be interested in that?

No, unless it would allow a paid admin of sorts. Since the main problem is, as I said before, time. Running a website like this costs a lot of freetime. And especially if you want dedication. I do not have that time. So what I need is people running the site, or even just take over the whole thing.

[WRS]

So I'm logging in after a few years to comment.... but I owe xentax a lot - it taught me to give back more than I take - as cliched as that is

It would be awful to see the site go under, but at what cost to yourself mr mouse - have you had help running the site in the past (other than forum admins)? What did you learn?

All our time is precious - pragmatically speaking would it make sense to archive the site? And how would that even work?

[neonvega]

hey im just catching wind of this im totally down to help the site for a time to keep it going like 12-15$ a month is no problem I rather keep this going then my Netflix going at this point ; Ive been coming to this site for several years and have made a couple of great online friends who have guided me and helped me understand 3d extraction of meshes and Blender

[Devilot]

so, I just want to say, that Zenhax has been down for a while now.

I can help with being a mod (not sure I have the authority to run the whole thing, not the time sadly as, for now, I run two jobs and a PT degree). Can talk about costs at a later date.

Just to clarify, mod duties in terms of being civil etc. My tech skills have improved somewhat, but not that much unfortunately. I was a mod for a time as well, don't think theyre was that much of an issue with my moderation, was it?

I will need to change my username however

[dclem]

I never liked discord, I am old fashioned, I prefer the forum over all else. In junction to this site for tutorials myself, there are just some things I can't do myself; I've gotten better at event programming, but other fields its good to have other help, so I seek aid via the market on Zenhax—nothing wrong with that. Seeing Zenhax going down terrifies me, and now xenhax for resources is a double whammy.

I don't want either to go down. I would keep it up; there's still things to be done, I've learned I've grown, I continue to learn and grow with places like these, and as a central game reversing site, it has to stay up. I don't want to even think about either site being a read-only copy. There is no other site like zenhax/xentax. Please don't let either or fall.

If xentax is doomed to die, its the fault of xentax. I really do appreciate all the help I got here, but it really sucks how impermeable its been made by grizzled veterans and their toxic outlooks.

All this said, this place is one of those last gems on the internet before its all just 3 websites owned by corpos. I really do want to see this place succeed. Im not sure how to help with that, but I i'll try if I can.

Yeah. True. I seek help and others to work with for their time helping me. For me, I'm a slower hands on learner, I try not to let it hold me back, I don't do well with just links to wikis sometimes outdated etc. or do not have anything for the specific game in question, but by working with another.

I can't but help notice you appear to have an issue with people here at the forum.

That is quite the statement to make. What is toxic in the outlook of these grizzled veterans?

But taking someone by the hand cannot be expected from anyone that is doing this stuff in their spare time. It takes a lot of effort to teach. And the majority of people just want a quick fix. 20 years of this forum has clearly shown that. Many of them "demanding" that they are helped to see the nude model of Link in the latest Zelda game. Since they are sadly unable to do it themselves, boo hoo, these poor people. You see, members have a way of getting grumpy when seeing the ungrateful post their requests time and again. They are allowed that much. But if that is called "toxic", then I guess the forum is not for the ungrateful.

This is part of the reason I avoided Xentax and used Zenhax. I haven't forgotten about Xentax entirely but this reason here kinda reminds me of why I stayed away. Games are specific—not all the same; sure some general points may be transferable but games have different structures, don't use the same engine, some are console, PC, different architectures, and its always better to work with another to better learn—paying for that time given.

Clearly you just don't get it do you?
Someone tells you to study harder and THEY are "toxic"?
OK. Fine. I'm just one Guy but you claim there are many creating this "Toxic Enviroment". You want to point out all the "toxic" members here? Please do so. Post your list of Us Evil doers! I expect to be at the Top of that list. Then see how many on that list will help you down the road.
It's easier to make enemies out of friends then to make a friend out of an enemy!

I'm done with you as your additude tells me all I need to know so I Thanked you.
Oh. And please let us know when some of your original work is copied into updates of Games and the Project Manager of that Game series flies half way around the World to meet you.

No, but the passive-aggressive nature is what keeps users like myself at bay. It's also why I never felt motivated to learn or get further into programming/reversing, because of this type of presence; I get it—you're smart you know a lot, I don't help more than minimum, nope. Ok, it's better to pay someone then. But I want to learn too, the game I love and interested in how it all work as well.
I get it, being told to study harder with no material on that specific game gets nowhere. Ask for help and suddenly we're just not trying hard enough, everyone learning understand speed is different, especially with complexity of reversing and programming.

Leonora once said:
'Maybe it doesn't seem like much to some magical prodigy like you, but...!'

Know that for the ones who are trying, albeit slower, are at least trying, have a interest in learning how to do it themselves. Asking for help, having a nice template/tool for them to soar on reversing/programming themselves and learning is really good.

I explain how to do it, People EXPECT me to do the work.

I don't expect people like you to do the work. There is a section for everything, not here on Xentax, that is. Unless they're paying you and engaging with it to learn along the way.
If something I cannot do myself, I could go to the market and request help for that section there, paid for their time and work; nothing wrong with that; as I'm working with them, engaging and learning while paying them. I get it, it's not for some, but is for others.

[*]researchers to requesters: researchers releasing tools/tutorials to the community, handling queries from their users or audiences.
This is the main aspect where researchers contribute to the community, and apparently what most users came here for. There are a lot of tools and tutorials published over the years and there might be more in the future. Only problem though, what's the major motivation for the authors to keep doing so? For tools release, I think it might be because they have an interest and pursuit in game technology, or because they keep getting positive feedback from the community and become addicted to it. But as a matter of fact, usually the author only gets 1 thank out of every 20 downloads of the attachment or even worse, which however is a common ailment of the Internet, not just here on XeNTaX. They just take, and don't care. As for me, I'm way passed the stage when such interaction can entertain myself as I find it unworthy and pointless to waste my time in exchange for getting my efforts mostly exploited by ungrateful a-holes you don't even know who they're. For tutorials it might be a different story as the way I see it, even though it could cost a lot of time to write a well-organized article, it also enhances your skills and abilities in archiving and summarizing things properly. And I do enjoy the pleasure of immersing myself in logical thinking during writing. On the other hand, the readers must undergo intellectual activities to understand and absorb knowledge in order to internalize it into their own skills, and such effort is worthy of recognition. There is one frustrating fact though, you don't get many audiences nowadays. Or maybe I've just underestimated their ability of comprehension, hence the lack of feedback.
[*]requesters to researchers: requesters posting new requests regarding games or topics they're interested in, looking for assistance from the researchers.
This is usually where it begins for a beginner to grow into an expert. People without decent knowledge of reverse engineering game models came here looking for help, after getting the first mesh entirely on their own, acquired an interest in game resource researching. They learned things along the way and even assisted others to walk on the same path. It's the circle of kindness, which also should be the most effective way of ensuring the sustainability of the forum. But we all know what reality is like. Indeed, you can't expect everyone to repeat the same trajectory, but please note that it is not an excessive requirement to ask you to contribute to this community to the best of your ability, coz every one of those dedicated to the forum had done their part and it's unfair that you take advantage of their efforts without contributing anything.
[*]requesters to requesters: requesters helping each other by sharing information they acquired from the Internet or other forums, or the common sense that experienced people don't usually repeat.
Though mostly this should be solved by doing a couple of forum searches or googling, I think we can have a little tolerance for that and trust there to be scenarios of proper use.[/list]

You should know that the majority of people thank silently, especially if the tool is from an older thread, or a locked thread they cannot post a thank you. It's very narrowed minded to think that users just take without thanks. If a tool already exists for whatever game they're here primarily for, that author is thanked; some post it, some don't—they thank vocally: 'hey look 'author' here has made a tool for X game, thanks/nice/'.

Comes down to if the tool was made a public release for users to grab and mod, or was paid made for specific use etc. Most attachements here are public releases. Either way, the author's work is undoubtedly appreciated and thanked. But know that most come here to mod and are searching for a tool to do so. Thy are not ungrateful, they all have different reasons/goals coming across the site. The main thing to know is that the work of author's publicly released tool work is appreciated.

As far as I can tell there is no Discord "Invite Invalid". So that's not much of an alternative or helping anyone is it... (also it isn't and has nothing to do with social media, no idea why one person mentioned facebook etc) Most people who incorrectly use the word and cry 'toxic' are the constant flow of entitled beggars who ask 'can someone do the work for me like a servant and send me these files?' which is not what the forum is about. It would be nice to have more resources for newcomers to actually learn some reverse engineering etc if they so wish for games which do not have existing tools. At a minimum the site needs to be archived, remember facepunch an incredibly huge loss and xentax would be the same, dealing an incredibly huge blow to the community who have interest in this stuff as a whole. Also hosting/data has never been cheaper, is it really so difficult to get one or two hundred in donations? Or put banner ads on the site to help, who cares we can handle a few.

This is why Zenhax's market section existed, because most have simple goals to mod or translate a game etc. or some have bigger projects and its just easier to pay and let the author(s) earn a nice extra income helping others who are undoubtedly appreciative. And it's certainly not for 'do the work for me like a servant'. You not being deprived and forced to work 24/7 on it without pay. They work on it on their own time, own pace and are paid for it.

so, I just want to say, that Zenhax has been down for a while now.

Please don't let the site go down. There is literally no other site like it; not even xentax. It may not seem like much with heavy activity but it is undoubtedly still active and cared for.

[05SpeedMaster]

It's also why I never felt motivated to learn or get further into programming/reversing,

It's not my job to motivate you. That's all on you Buddy.
So suck it up and stop blaming others for your failures and faults!


What should be done? Award people like you a 'Ribbon for Participating' so your little feelings don't get hurt?
You better figure out how the REAL World works before you get ground into the dirt and left behind in the dust.

[Bigchillghost]

It was really a huge pain reading your context because of those large sections of nonspecific quotes. You need to avoid that next time.
Honestly I needn't have wasted my time in replying posts like that, but it's a good chance to make a point.
Across your comment I see that you're not good enough in reverse engineering so you pay people to do the labour for you. Well that's against the forum rules here on XeNTaX. Maybe some people do it in private but it's forbidden publicly here. So for the majority of people here whom you took the tools and the valuable info from, they're doing this for free and totally out of interest. Would it be an excessive request to ask for a little gratitude from the users then?

Now, regarding your theory of "the majority of people thank silently", that's the most untenable sophistry I've ever heard. There's a specific way to thank a user in action, by clicking the thumb button on the upper right corner of each post, right next to the quote button. I'm sure you must have noticed that. It's totally free, all you need to do is a simple click. An additional verbal thank through a comment can earn you some extra favor from the author but a verbal thank only without actual deeds of clicking the thank button on the contrary makes people doubt your sincerity. Fancy words just paled in front of real actions. So how much do you think it worth of your silent gratitude now? I'd rather believe that you merely don't have the courage to admit your mistakes than that you're trying to defense yourself. Wouldn't that be a huge disappointment if otherwise?

So ** it up and ...

Chillax, no need to lose our grace. Even on the Internet we should remind ourselves of constant reflection and self-discipline. Mutual respect is the least we can do, on the premise that all parties remain restraint.

[dclem]

It's also why I never felt motivated to learn or get further into programming/reversing,

It's not my job to motivate you. That's all on you Buddy.
So suck it up and stop blaming others for your failures and faults!


What should be done? Award people like you a 'Ribbon for Participating' so your little feelings don't get hurt?
You better figure out how the REAL World works before you get ground into the dirt and left behind in the dust.

Nevermind. I take it back. I do not wish for the site to continue. This shows a lot about your character. I've never interacted with you until now and this is how you show it.
Precisely my point; I am more concerned about supporting zenhax. There was no need to be so rude, simply put.

It was really a huge pain reading your context because of those large sections of nonspecific quotes. You need to avoid that next time.
Honestly I needn't have wasted my time in replying posts like that, but it's a good chance to make a point.
Across your comment I see that you're not good enough in reverse engineering so you pay people to do the labour for you. Well that's against the forum rules here on XeNTaX. Maybe some people do it in private but it's forbidden publicly here. So for the majority of people here whom you took the tools and the valuable info from, they're doing this for free and totally out of interest. Would it be an excessive request to ask for a little gratitude from the users then?

Now, regarding your theory of "the majority of people thank silently", that's the most untenable sophistry I've ever heard. There's a specific way to thank a user in action, by clicking the thumb button on the upper right corner of each post, right next to the quote button. I'm sure you must have noticed that. It's totally free, all you need to do is a simple click. An additional verbal thank through a comment can earn you some extra favor from the author but a verbal thank only without actual deeds of clicking the thank button on the contrary makes people doubt your sincerity. Fancy words just paled in front of real actions. So how much do you think it worth of your silent gratitude now? I'd rather believe that you merely don't have the courage to admit your mistakes than that you're trying to defense yourself. Wouldn't that be a huge disappointment if otherwise?

So ** it up and ...

Chillax, no need to lose our grace. Even on the Internet we should remind ourselves of constant reflection and self-discipline. Mutual respect is the least we can do, on the premise that all parties remain restraint.

Oh yeah, definitely exactly what urammer said. If not toxic, definitely bitter—no point in trying to talk with someone of the sort, it won't go anywhere.

Bitter, sad and passive-aggressive, a triad of despair. I suggest seeking help for that, no need to take it out on me.
If Xentax inevitably shuts down, I wouldn't be surprised why. Maybe work on the inflated ego and perhaps you won't be so high on your horse and angry.
And I specifically stated I don't use Xentax, hence why I've only had 5 posts here. I know Xentax doesn't have a market section, duh, that's why I use Zenhax. But that is not the core reason why I avoid Xenhax, that reason is the serpent coiled before me.

I see perhaps you want everyone to be your constant beck and call, craving the upvotes/likes/thanks instead of doing it for the love of the game you're reversing. You should know, if you're not doing this via a paid job, or instead because you, yourself wants to, for your own love for the game(s), is it worth it?

That's a decision you can only make. And you should know, in the real world, not every user here is going to upvote/thank the post when they come here searching for a specific info/tool for the game their looking to mod. That is the reality you do not want to accept. Ever heard of the term: "It's the thought that counts", there's a reason it exists.

Or perhaps not, maybe that's just your character, and if so, Geez. Good luck to you and your endeavors.
By the way, @05SpeedMaster
I don't need your motivation at all, nor did I so much as mention that in any way in my original post, I don't know you; and with that attitude, who would even want your help? Or so much as want to work with you? I can't imagine.

[Devilot]

so, I just want to say, that Zenhax has been down for a while now.

Please don't let the site go down. There is literally no other site like it; not even xentax. It may not seem like much with heavy activity but it is undoubtedly still active and cared for.

Does not depend on me, but it does on aluigi. Were it up to me, as I said I'd making mega mod-quasi admin here and give him a full QuickBMS section.