Speaking of games...

[NinjaMuffin]

I also thought that S.T.A.L.K.E.R. would be something different as a shooter, but it is plagued with setbacks and delays that makes me wonder if it will be as good as expected when it's released.

Sadly, publishers often set unrealistic deadlines on developers for the completion of games, rather than doing the *logical* and most likely *money-saving* thing of giving the developers enough time to actually finish all planned features, get them tested, and add extra stuff they might think of towards the end... I think if publishers would just start pushing deadlines back, we could potentialy see the quality of games increase.

S.T.A.L.K.E.R. seemed very promising and I read that the pulishers were unhappy whith all the delays and setbacks so they are now pushing to get it released regardless of what state it's in...which really would be a shame.

In general, I agree with your statement that not stressing developers with short deadlines would be better for quality.

However, as long as cool graphics and supporting the latest hardware is expected from the consumers (or the publishers firmly believe this to be the case) the developing timeframe will be dictated by the release of new hardware (graphic cards etc). No one seems keen to take the extra costs for switching engines in mid-production for example...and we all know too well about games like Duke Nuke 'em Forever...which has been in "development" for how long?

Also, as games become more and more linked together with movies and the movie industry, keeping deadlines becomes even more crucial. You need to release the game title roughly around the same as the corresponding movie...or the positive mutual promotion effect will be lost and so on.

Bottom line, I agree with you that quality should not be compromised...but that would also mean that we as consumers also can't ask for our games to utilize the latest technology. The stakes are just too high on the producing end...longer developing times are extremely costly and a high riskfactor for all involved.

I'm not saying I like it any more than you do. I'm just saying that us consumers might have a big part in it by always wanting the latest and coolest looking stuff. To be completely honest...aren't we all in the end just suckers for shiny and pretty stuff if we can get our hands on it?

N

[Mr.Mouse]

I tend to disagree on the latter statement. It's not that we as consumers want the latest technology, it's the industry that forces this on us.

Developers no longer push the maximum possibilities out of the hardware that is available, coming up with brilliant routines. No, instead they rely heavily on new hardware to come out to support their sloppy routines. As an old geezer, I remember programmers did their very best to make brilliant use of the Commodore 64 hardware, by very clever coding routines.That is of the past, obviously, as developers no longer have time to sit down and make their code as efficient as possible.There are deadlines to meet.

I seriously hate it when I have a perfectly ok system and some game comes out that requires a huge upgrade to run smoothly. Thus, the industry forces this down my throat, it's not that I ask for it. Coders should instead use their brains to create fast routines, and not rely on the latest AMD chip and Gayforce card make the routine faster.

[NinjaMuffin]

Good points...sorry for not replying sooner, been very busy IRL.

I'd agree that the envelope is probably not really pushed for the hardware as it used to be (except for perhaps in some degree certain gamingconsoles, when the hardware might be around for a bit longer at least compared to graphics cards).

The C64 is a very good example, however it was also around and used for quite some time. Nowadays, the whole consumer market is focused on short term usage. Hardware is built with shorter durability lifespan as consumers are expected to change "models" pretty quickly.

I agree that this is forced upon us, but it's not like the games industry are alone in this. The whole market economy is based on consuming...and the concept of giving the customers "what they want" when it is in fact the producers who in large dictate what that is. Although I think you are right in essence, I also think that as long as most people rush to buy the latest stuff (whether it be a graphics card, TV or stereo) the producers will continue to do their best to supply what people "want".

Of course it is in their best interest to sell a new product every 2 months or so...effectively "recycling" old customers and their cash over and over again. I also think many customers are getting fed up with the situation...and when it comes to gaming communities like this one is a good example of sticking to what "works" and being creative and add their own longterm value to for example games by modding etc.

In all I agree with your points 100%, but I also think consumers play an important part in this. There is a certain demand from buyers...and as long as that exists producers/sellers will take advantage of the situation best they can. It is hard for one to exist without the other so to speak.

Cheers

N

[Xela]

I have to chime in even my view is so pesymistic here.

IMHO the industry simply has abandoned "educated consumer". It caters no longer entertainment with some "food for brain". It mainly caters only and purposedly the same, brainless, repeateable, easy, short and frankly boring pieces of gaming with hardly any contents. All that to buy new, buy again, buy more. Nothing personal, but just simply business.

And yes, the "new" games are always glitzy and more technically shinier than previous title. That thanks mainly to new hardware, which is compulsory of course. What we have now Playstation 3 ...? Is something really so obsolete with previous Playstation2 or whatever there? Xbox? and all that other modern console stuff. Its a race of a giants and they really dictate and tell what the crowd suppose to "want".

PC gaming is in the remission and regress. Is being simply pushed out - just take a good look at your software shop. My opinion and "conspiracy" theory is that PC crowd is no longer recognised as a buying mass. Why? Perhaps because they GETTING OLDER , they like to think sometimes how those game things are made, they have those memories of past good times and ... behold, those PC users dare to mod.

I know, I know ... a rant of the old geezer. So now is all out...

[NinjaMuffin]

Just saw Elder Scrolls Oblivion "live" so to speak and it looks absolutely gorgeous. Gameplay also seems pretty cool too from what I could tell.

However, no chance in hell for me to run it smoothly on my current computer, so I guess I'm looking at buying at least a new graphics card.

Mr Mouse has a good point indeed, I bought my computer last year and it was then considered "mid-range" performance wise. Stuff you buy sure gets old very fast nowadays.

N

[Mr.Mouse]

Same here. I bought Oblivion only to be served a slideshow. Now, I do have the "minimum" required specs. Apperently this is just the minimum to even show anything on screen.

So, I'm planning an upgrade the coming month. Already ordered a better mobo. I'll just do a budget upgrade though, not going for the latest of graphics card, but mid-range.

It's a real bummer to buy the game you've been waiting for since ages and not being able to play it.

[Savage]

I'm addict to Rainbow Islands and Bubble bobble , okay sometimes pang and out run.

And i agree the "old games" are better than the actual games, can found a game with 10.000!! levels in 48 kb's? (The sentinell).
You can found remake called Sentry http://www.remakes.org.

Very nice.

[Mr.Mouse]

The Sentinel is a classic.

[Xela]

Talking about creativity of older titles, great story ideas and grand potential of gaming media brought (purposedly ) to the ground.

Did you know that Sierra's "Gabriel Knight 3" was actually "Da Vinci Code" story. It was limited to French area and obscured by "Gabriel Knight"serial title, but the concept was there and the same. Now talking about that copywrite rights and all that pre movie hoopla.

[Savage]

Originality of old games...Sentinel (again), Abadia del crimen, Head over heels or batman, pang, Tetris (aahhh),etc etc etc.

Now the game are with amazing and superbs graphics, nice audio 5.1 or eax x.x, amazing ost's, etc etc...but adiction it's closed to 0.

I'm back to ultima 7 with exult hehehehhe

[Mr.Mouse]

Anyway, I have now upgraded my system.

New:

ASUS A8N-SLI Motherboard
AMD 3700+
NVIDIA Geforce 7600GT
2 GB internal memory

Oblivon runs smoothly now with all knobs on!

Speaking of games,

We (Captain Corny, The Gee, Rogue and I) used to play Micromachines 2 against eachother, which was hilarious. We used to go to one of our places, buy lots of beer and then play MM2 on one computer (sitting with 4 people around a screen, three using the keyboard and one unfortunate one with a joystick) until the early hours. That was great, great fun.

[NinjaMuffin]

Oblivon runs smoothly now with all knobs on!

Sweet.

For other fans of Oblivion in dire need of tweaking, this Oblivion Tweak Guide might be of interest.

N

[Dinoguy1000]

Ooh, ooh! This isn't a very old game, but my brother and I played multiplayer on 007: Nightfire last night, with 6 bots, cranked up all the way... with explosives. Now THAT was fun if I've ever had it!

[Mr.Mouse]

Still on the subject of games, this page I created in the past

http://www.xentax.com/taoc/swsounds.htm

My favourite sounds! Actually, our group of friends found Shadow Warrior's Lo Wang's comments absolutely hilarious.

Captain and I used to play this game against eachother when living in the same house during our university years. Fucking brilliant. In the game you can send these sounds to the other players whenever you feel like it. Image the agression boiling when you were just gibbed to pieces by your "friend"'s rocket and hear him taunting "You so stuuupid, you can't find ass with both hands!". With total lack of patience you slam the keyboard to spawn as soon as technically possible to make him pay dearly.

[Dinoguy1000]

Now THERE'S a game that sounds worth playin'!