Spotlight: Señor Casaroja's Noesis

[MrAdults]

I've been off in PS2 land for a while now, writing a R5900 cpu emulator (it will be in the next Noesis, for extracting data from at least one PS2 game by executing its own decompression routines and dumping the data from the R5900's memory - an approach I plan to use a lot in the future on PS2 games that are kind enough to retain symbol tables and give me reliable offsets for executing specific decompression/unencryption routines), and trying to figure out various PS2 model formats. revelation has kindly given me some specs/schooling on VIFcode as well. I don't know when I will get a new Noesis out, since I'm still in the middle of all that, but to address some things in the mean time:

I'm really sorry, if this has been answered before, but I'd like to know why does Noesis export Ninja Gaiden 2 .gmds without boneweights?

I never found the correct skeleton for those models, as I'm pretty sure it's in the motion data or something. If someone figured that out, feel free to send me the specs. I haven't looked at it in months. Possibly years now. I don't know where Surveyor left off either.

Figured it out! For whatever reason it was looking for "ffccdif_63.png.png", the extra file extension tag screwed things up.

Also, for whatever reason it's looking for "ffccdif_65535.png".... but there is no such file with that name. o_O

FF7CC is kind of a legacy format that doesn't go through any of the new interfaces, so it's not too surprising to hear about this. I'll try to remember to look at it before the next release. 65535 means the surface must have had no texture. (this is valid in some cases, as many vertex-colored surfaces in FF7CC have no texture or UV's) You can probably safely ignore it, or just make make a white square texture and name it that or something.

MrAdults any chance you're gonna add noesis support for marvel vs capcom 3 ??

It was in there for a while, but it only worked with the strip format models, and it was half-assed support so I just disabled it. If anyone figures out the non-strip index format for those models, I'll be happy to finish support for the game and re-enable it. I revisited it myself last week but still could not completely make sense of it. Multiple sources have led me to believe the data is encoded with the PS3 Edge library, though, and if anyone could tell me how it encodes data, I'm pretty sure it would provide the key for MVC3's index data. The other option is if someone cracks the compression on the 360 ver, as I'm pretty sure its models don't use this index format, and they probably just use strip lists exclusively instead.

q to MrAdults:
1 - can you implementing support of FBX format (i think most stable and optimal format to storing model/animation data)
2 - can i use noesis in command line "mode" (i want to convert models recursively through the folders)
3 - there is any way to disable left-side tree-menu (i'd love to use noesis like simple viewer, but this menu loading tree for all of my deep-deep thousands folders)

1) Some day, when I'm not busy with other things and not being lazy. Both of those things rarely happen in conjunction, though.
2) The batch processing option is the closest thing to it, located under the tools menu.
3) Not currently. That probably would be good to add at some point, though, I agree. Since the MFC tree view is a slow son of a bitch.

Also regarding FF9: It has been on my list of games to support for a long time now, since as you may have noticed, I have a thing for the FF series. However, I have no idea when I'll get around to actually looking at the data. Probably sometime soonish, but it depends on how things go in my PS2-related ventures.

[maniacoloco]

Just a little request:

Is there a way to not export hidden meshes in Noesis?? and the second thing, hope you consider supporting NG Sigma 2.

[fpunch]

Hi, I'm new to this kind of thing and to this program especially.

My question is that is it possible to export a model with skeleton bound and weighted to mesh, and then open it in Maya for example? Or at least export the skeleton? I'm looking at a .gmo file in noesis and it contains skeleton also but can't figure if it's possible to export it.

Thanks

[maniacoloco]

Hi, I'm new to this kind of thing and to this program especially.

My question is that is it possible to export a model with skeleton bound and weighted to mesh, and then open it in Maya for example? Or at least export the skeleton? I'm looking at a .gmo file in noesis and it contains skeleton also but can't figure if it's possible to export it.

Thanks

With noesis, yes it's possible only if you have an importer supported for the formats supported of Noesis (psk, dae, m5mesh, smd, etc...). There's a collada plugin for maya.

[Krisan Thyme]

While batch processing files and working with a format like GMO, is there any way to define what format animations and textures are converted to? And for that matter, is there a command to rotate 90 the model\anims in the batch processor? If not, these would be a really useful features. (On another note, -ignoreroot doesn't seem to be working from what I've tested.)

[Satoh]

Hi, I'm new to this kind of thing and to this program especially.

My question is that is it possible to export a model with skeleton bound and weighted to mesh, and then open it in Maya for example? Or at least export the skeleton? I'm looking at a .gmo file in noesis and it contains skeleton also but can't figure if it's possible to export it.

Thanks

With noesis, yes it's possible only if you have an importer supported for the formats supported of Noesis (psk, dae, m5mesh, smd, etc...). There's a collada plugin for maya.

There are two collada plugins for maya, I have them both, they both work VERY poorly. Bone weights are often lost, or texture UV data, or both, or the bones don't import at all. I have never successfully imported animations from collada period.

If FBX were to be supported at some point, that would be very helpful.

...but I don't care for collada much due to my issues with it.

[Mirrorman95]

I have another major problem in Noesis.

I have a Collada DAE model that looks fine in other model viewers, but in Noesis the textures are vertically flipped.
The link to this model and all 100 of textures is at http://www.3dvia.com/3dsearch/Content/8 ... wnloader=2

[Krisan Thyme]

There are two collada plugins for maya, I have them both, they both work VERY poorly. Bone weights are often lost, or texture UV data, or both, or the bones don't import at all. I have never successfully imported animations from collada period.

If FBX were to be supported at some point, that would be very helpful.

...but I don't care for collada much due to my issues with it.

OpenCOLLADA seems to have issues on Maya.. It works (mostly*) fine in Max, but for some reason it's bugged as all hell when it comes to Maya. I can confirm all of these problems, as they're what ultimately forced me to give up on using Maya for stuff like this.

*The actual size of the DAE model when imported into Max (or perhaps the problem lies when exported from Noesis?) is inconsistent with the size of the model in other formats. A good example of this would be to export a model at -scale 100 as an OBJ, then do the same as a DAE.. Then import them both into the same scene in Max. The OBJ will be the correct (larger) size, whereas the DAE model will be quite a bit smaller..

I have another major problem in Noesis.

I have a Collada DAE model that looks fine in other model viewers, but in Noesis the textures are vertically flipped.
The link to this model and all 100 of textures is at http://www.3dvia.com/3dsearch/Content/8 ... wnloader=2

The model is probably standing on its Z-Axis, though I can't check to confirm. (link isn't working) Noesis seems to default to Y-Up for most formats, unless they're notorious for being Z-Up (like PSK). You should be able to just click on the axis toggle button inside the viewer to get it looking right..

While batch processing files and working with a format like GMO, is there any way to define what format animations and textures are converted to? And for that matter, is there a command to rotate 90 the model\anims in the batch processor? If not, these would be a really useful features. (On another note, -ignoreroot doesn't seem to be working from what I've tested.)

I should note I have yet to test -ignoreroot on anything other than a GMO yet, but it definitely isn't working on those at least. Also if a command can't be issued for what type of format anims are converted to, there should at least be an intelligent system that decides the format based on the type of model it's converting to. (For example, if converting to PSK in batch processing, default to PSA for animation.. At the moment, it uses RDA for animations regardless of anything else, unless the format you're converting to is DAE.)

[Mirrorman95]

I have another major problem in Noesis.

I have a Collada DAE model that looks fine in other model viewers, but in Noesis the textures are vertically flipped.
The link to this model and all 100 of textures is at http://www.3dvia.com/3dsearch/Content/8 ... wnloader=2

The model is probably standing on its Z-Axis, though I can't check to confirm. (link isn't working) Noesis seems to default to Y-Up for most formats, unless they're notorious for being Z-Up (like PSK). You should be able to just click on the axis toggle button inside the viewer to get it looking right..

I don't understand. How will axis toggle flip the textures? The thing is, the DAE would work, if I flipped a hundred textures with a jpg editor. But the textures are supposed to be the way they are, so if they don't load, I'm guessing there's a problem with Noesis. An axis flip would only rotate the model, wouldn't it?

[Krisan Thyme]

I don't understand. How will axis toggle flip the textures? The thing is, the DAE would work, if I flipped a hundred textures with a jpg editor. But the textures are supposed to be the way they are, so if they don't load, I'm guessing there's a problem with Noesis. An axis flip would only rotate the model, wouldn't it?

Oh, I misread. The textures.. Sorry, I've been going on so little sleep lately. Yeah, that happens to me too with certain DAE models. I know WHY it happens, but it's hard to explain. It's definitely a bug with Noesis though. I've personally given up on using DAE myself, given all the problems there are in importing them correctly into Max/Maya.

[MrAdults]

Just a little request:
Is there a way to not export hidden meshes in Noesis?? and the second thing, hope you consider supporting NG Sigma 2.

Nope. And...not on the priority list. I probably will revisit NG2 one day, though, to look further into skeletal+motion data. But not any day very soon.

While batch processing files and working with a format like GMO, is there any way to define what format animations and textures are converted to? And for that matter, is there a command to rotate 90 the model\anims in the batch processor? If not, these would be a really useful features. (On another note, -ignoreroot doesn't seem to be working from what I've tested.)

Yes. -animoutex ".ext", same works with images using "-imageoutex". Although those commands aren't documented as I intend to change the way it works internally at some point.

I have another major problem in Noesis.

I have a Collada DAE model that looks fine in other model viewers, but in Noesis the textures are vertically flipped.
The link to this model and all 100 of textures is at http://www.3dvia.com/3dsearch/Content/8 ... wnloader=2

That doesn't sound very major! Noesis assumes no uv v flip. If you want to flip a model's uv's just export it with the uv flip option.

There are two collada plugins for maya, I have them both, they both work VERY poorly. Bone weights are often lost, or texture UV data, or both, or the bones don't import at all. I have never successfully imported animations from collada period.

If FBX were to be supported at some point, that would be very helpful.

...but I don't care for collada much due to my issues with it.

Noesis uses FCollada for import and export, and typically OpenCOLLADA has been very good about maintaining compatibility there. My Max OpenCOLLADA importer/exporter plugins work great with all of my Noesis files. Not sure why Maya's OC-based plugin would have issues.

*The actual size of the DAE model when imported into Max (or perhaps the problem lies when exported from Noesis?) is inconsistent with the size of the model in other formats. A good example of this would be to export a model at -scale 100 as an OBJ, then do the same as a DAE.. Then import them both into the same scene in Max. The OBJ will be the correct (larger) size, whereas the DAE model will be quite a bit smaller..

Noesis doesn't do a thing to scales.

The model is probably standing on its Z-Axis, though I can't check to confirm. (link isn't working) Noesis seems to default to Y-Up for most formats, unless they're notorious for being Z-Up (like PSK). You should be able to just click on the axis toggle button inside the viewer to get it looking right..

Noesis doesn't do a thing to axis orientation either, unless you tell it to, but it does occasionally change the default preview axis. This does not affect the axis on the exported data, even if you export from preview.

I should note I have yet to test -ignoreroot on anything other than a GMO yet, but it definitely isn't working on those at least.

-ignoreroot is a legacy option that probably doesn't work with anything other than some md5 files. It was implemented only for my personal content pipeline.

Yeah, that happens to me too with certain DAE models. I know WHY it happens, but it's hard to explain. It's definitely a bug with Noesis though. I've personally given up on using DAE myself, given all the problems there are in importing them correctly into Max/Maya.

It isn't a bug with Noesis. Noesis doesn't do a thing to UV's either! (at least where COLLADA is concerned) You might call the lack of obeying uv scales/flips on a per-material basis a missing feature, though.

Ok then, back to drinking large quantities of beer.

[Mirrorman95]

I have another major problem in Noesis.

I have a Collada DAE model that looks fine in other model viewers, but in Noesis the textures are vertically flipped.
The link to this model and all 100 of textures is at http://www.3dvia.com/3dsearch/Content/8 ... wnloader=2

That doesn't sound very major! Noesis assumes no uv v flip. If you want to flip a model's uv's just export it with the uv flip option.

I tried that. When I exported it as an OBJ with UV flip, it still looked screwed up. When I exported it as an OBJ without UV flip, and as another DAE with UV flip, the textures didn't map at all.

[Krisan Thyme]

Yes. -animoutex ".ext", same works with images using "-imageoutex". Although those commands aren't documented as I intend to change the way it works internally at some point.

I appreciate this a lot.. Thanks.

Noesis doesn't do a thing to scales.

Then this is an issue with OpenCollada, or the DAE format in general. Just compare a scaled model exported from Noesis as both an OBJ and a DAE in Max, you'll notice they're NOT the same size. I don't know why. This caused me some problems when working with multiple formats.

Noesis doesn't do a thing to axis orientation either, unless you tell it to, but it does occasionally change the default preview axis. This does not affect the axis on the exported data, even if you export from preview.

I didn't mean to imply it did do anything to the orientation, just that it displays the "standard" of Y-Up by default, and that.. Yeah, a Z-Up DAE model will look wrong in Noesis, but it doesn't effect anything at all you're right.

-ignoreroot is a legacy option that probably doesn't work with anything other than some md5 files. It was implemented only for my personal content pipeline.

That would explain it. >_>
You should probably hide the option from the help text, or change the wording so that it's clearer it only works with MD5. I kept trying to make it work, but it never seemed to do anything. I actually wasted a good bit of time fooling with it before I concluded I wasn't doing something wrong.

It isn't a bug with Noesis. Noesis doesn't do a thing to UV's either! (at least where COLLADA is concerned) You might call the lack of obeying uv scales/flips on a per-material basis a missing feature, though.

Ok then, back to drinking large quantities of beer.

Curious.. I hope you aren't taking my observations too personally, as I do love and adore this software.. The textures match the appropriate UV's when displayed in.. say.. Max, for example though. It's just in Noesis it shows them as if the UV's were incorrect, when they're actually not. I definitely know what Mirrorman is referring to anyway.. So if it's not technically an issue with Noesis, then it must be a problem with the DAE format itself.

[chrrox]

The contents of this post was deleted because of possible forum rules violation.

[MrAdults]

2.99:

-Started writing a CPU emulator for the R5900. It can be invoked within Noesis to run native PS2 game code for specific tasks. The R5900 core will be exposed to plugin developers when it is more complete.
-Added support for unpacking Bujingai's compressed .bin files. (the main AFS containers have already been supported by Noesis for a long time) This uses the R5900 core to decompress data, and find package index tables inside the game's ELF. I used symbol offsets in determining my points of code execution, so hopefully this will also work on different distributions of the game, but I make no guarantees.
-Added import support for Bujingai models and textures. Praise be to Gackt! Materials will probably be messed up for most models, though, and level bits don't get snapped into place. And some stuff may just not work at all. Who knows. Animations are also loaded, but arm/leg bones are usually screwed up, because I'm not handling IK joints correctly.
-Fixed COLLADA exporter bug where models that use multiple materials under the same name would only export a single material.
-Fixed COLLADA vertex alphas not being imported.
-Fixed problems with exporting to COLLADA with non-normalized vertex weights.
-Added "No browse to target" option under the view menu. This prevents Noesis from browsing to the path of the loaded file in the shell folder view, as well as from browsing to the last selected folder on startup.
-Added "Don't apply on drag" option under the view menu. This removes the prompt asking if you'd like to apply the model to the existing scene (if a scene is already open), and defaults to always loading the drag-and-dropped item as a new scene.
-Now printing vertex indices next to individual triangles in data viewer.
-Now printing bone indices, if applicable, next to individual vertices in data viewer.
-Exposed Noesis_UntwiddlePS2 for plugin authors.

I was stuck on Bujingai for damn near a week, which was unexpected. I'm taking a break now, in order to recover from the frustration and torment it inflicted upon me.

Did we always have this convenient quote button on the reply page? It seems like a newish (like within the last few months, anyway) thing. Well, if someone added it, then nice job! Or maybe I was thinking of another forum that lacked quote functionality.

Noesis has an issue with kens rage for meshes that use the vertex size 0x70 bytes long.
I have uploaded 2 pictures to show how the mesh should look and how it looks in noesis.
you can see he is missing the long hair and it shows up around his waist as a clump of verts.

I still haven't looked into this, so I have no real idea about what's up with it. But I suspect, as you probably do, that it's got some special physics properties associated with it. (which may not even be in the same file as the model/skeleton) That might help in knowing where to weight it. Or maybe that vert type is so big because it contains some extra morph/positional data.

Then this is an issue with OpenCollada, or the DAE format in general. Just compare a scaled model exported from Noesis as both an OBJ and a DAE in Max, you'll notice they're NOT the same size.

They're the same size for me, tested with a skeletal model from FFX. Sounds to me like you're probably just importing the scene units from the DAE, so don't do that.

You should probably hide the option from the help text, or change the wording so that it's clearer it only works with MD5.

2.99 contains a special disclaimer at the top of the "Advanced commands" list, so that you may sleep more soundly from now on.

Curious.. I hope you aren't taking my observations too personally, as I do love and adore this software..

Shut up. I'm sick of your abuse. You never wanted this software for anything but its models. You never wanted to build a life with it, and you couldn't even be bothered to flip your UV's for it when it was at its most vulnerable. This software doesn't need "love" like yours. Go to hell. And sorry, but I'm suing for custody. It's what my lawyer thinks is best.

The textures match the appropriate UV's when displayed in.. say.. Max, for example though. It's just in Noesis it shows them as if the UV's were incorrect, when they're actually not. I definitely know what Mirrorman is referring to anyway.. So if it's not technically an issue with Noesis, then it must be a problem with the DAE format itself.

Like I said, Noesis will not obey material UV deforms. But most likely that is not even your issue. To flip or not to flip is an age old question, and I've run into it in more modeling packages and formats than I can count. There are even other COLLADA importers/exporters which change the default UV flip. I'll take no part in it, and refuse to change the default to flip, because I know it would cause even more confusing fuckups. I'm sure half of the .3ds files in the world appear to have wrongly flipped UV's too, even though I flip there by default as per the old Max standard. Just flip the UV's yourself if they are not right for your target package/viewer/format/game/etc. It's naive to say it's "broken" in any given package, though, because it's simply a matter of conflicting/absent standards.

I tried that. When I exported it as an OBJ with UV flip, it still looked screwed up. When I exported it as an OBJ without UV flip, and as another DAE with UV flip, the textures didn't map at all.

The losing material names on export bug has been fixed in 2.99.