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No idea maybe they already looks like that in game lol.

When i saw this screen:

Maybe models aren't that good, than we imagined.

They look pretty damn similar to me considering the differences in the perspective and lighting, as well as the game obviously not being able to render physically real simulations at 30+ fps...


Also,

toolieo wrote: Forza 'Official' wireframe: Video here:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTFMZTYGrWk

This pretty much confirms the theory of the models originally being constructed mostly out of quads When the game developers export their model data to the .carbin format, they preserve the original quad normals to keep the original smoothing, but convert to triangle strips for ease of use in DirectX. Therefore, the smoothing problems we have all been experiencing are NOT dependent only on precision as I've stated multiple times before, but instead caused when the wrong normals automatically get recalculated by modeling programs based on the existing triangle data. Sure, precision may be a small factor in the wrong recalculation of these normals because of the datatypes used, but the original quad normals will cover all of that up...

If using 3ds Max to import Forza Studio exports, the smoothing is perfect because there's an option to import normals from file. Unfortunately any changes made to the mesh or when you export to certain formats it will recalculate normals based on existing tris and then have smoothing issues. Unfortunately I don't think there is much we can do here aside from forcing modeling programs to use only the normals given and explicitly telling them to not recalculate, or reconstruct quad data on our own based on what we already know about its normals...

I always thought quads and traingles are no problems.
Its strange why the models get fked up.

bigBear wrote:I always thought quads and traingles are no problems.
Its strange why the models get fked up.

... huh?

No idea why it's not rendering properly in Maxwell. All other 3D Apps working like a charm for me now ... (after 3D SimEd Import/Export)

And it's working in Games fine too

Now we need the Textures and all very important is done

sommergemuese wrote:No idea why it's not rendering properly in Maxwell. All other 3D Apps working like a charm for me now ... (after 3D SimEd Import/Export)

We determined it was the .mxs writing from 3ds max about two weeks ago.

I used the guide from sommergemuese. Everything was fine, but when I tried convert model in Editable Poly I got this:



Why?

p.s.: I use 3dsim 2.6 and 3d max 2010 64x

Because normals are being calculated off of the existing geometry when you do that rather than the actual source-quads.
This has been established.
Can you guys please stop bickering about this until quads can be finalized or the mxs exporter can be re-written?
We know of the problem.
We know what causes it.
We know how to fix it.

That is all.

@ALYX: That BMW M3 E92 was a announcement image.. When Forza 3 was announced they were showing that image, so for all you know that's could of been WIP.


@Ernegien: Glad to hear that image was able help to you. Now.. hmm how to fix it? or solve this crap. Might hit up some programs later and see if I can change the settings on it. See if I can force it to use normals from file etc

@ALYX: That BMW M3 E92 was a announcement image.. When Forza 3 was announced they were showing that image, so for all you know that's could of been WIP.

The same thing is on release version of Forza 3. Turn10 screwed up with some models. Normals on them are not properly.
Maybe it's a shadr problem or something but smoothing on them are not well.

Veegie, source quads?? you think everything is modelled in quads and nothing else works?
I imagine the originals were nurbs and then transformed to triangle mesh. quads are not required for something to look good and it's not the source of the problem unless I'm mistaken. which is basically impossible.

the issue is still geometry precision due to 16bit coordinates and the reason it looks good in games and some editors is because of the vertex normals in the file which hides the actual geometry's uneven surface. you can think of it as game fakery.
it might be possible to clean up the geometry with a fancy algorithm.

but that shouldn't be focused on for now. material and uv mapping first

@Tosyk Imported the Exported SimEd DAE?

The UV's are already perfect. To resolve the Flip Error watch some Posts back. The Code is there to fix it

@Veegie I know so many Game Models with Triangles and there is absolutely no Problem like here...

In zmodeler 3d model is perfect. Except some troubles with badgings. But it's easy to fix. So at the moment we need texture converter and maybe save original materials in 3ds models.

Dan Frederiksen wrote:the reason it looks good in games and some editors is because of the vertex normals in the file which hides the actual geometry's uneven surface. you can think of it as game fakery.

That's fine with me . Honestly, I don't think it will be very feasible to try and recover any lost precision through some elaborate algorithm that will only end up causing other problems.

Models render fine in 3ds max and other programs that do not recalculate normals. The only reason Veegie and myself are even still discussing this topic is because when 3ds max exports to an intermediate mxs file for rendering in maxwell studios, it recalculates normals. And maxwell studios is the preferred renderer because of its realism. Unfortunately I will probably just end up writing a custom mxs exporter plugin for 3ds max to preserve the normals since maxwell's creators aren't exactly quick on bugfixes/additional feature requests...

Ernegien wrote:

Dan Frederiksen wrote:the reason it looks good in games and some editors is because of the vertex normals in the file which hides the actual geometry's uneven surface. you can think of it as game fakery.

That's fine with me . Honestly, I don't think it will be very feasible to try and recover any lost precision through some elaborate algorithm that will only end up causing other problems.

Models render fine in 3ds max and other programs that do not recalculate normals. The only reason Veegie and myself are even still discussing this topic is because when 3ds max exports to an intermediate mxs file for rendering in maxwell studios, it recalculates normals. And maxwell studios is the preferred renderer because of its realism. Unfortunately I will probably just end up writing a custom mxs exporter plugin for 3ds max to preserve the normals since maxwell's creators aren't exactly quick on bugfixes/additional feature requests...

Exporting to .obj from Forza Studio will results to screwd up mesh,
it import like this: